ANGIN Women’s Spotlight series seeks to showcase a diverse array of inspiring women leaders and their stories and experiences in order to shed light on the unique experiences of women in business. We hope that both men and women can gain from these shared experiences, that these stories can inspire change, and that other young girls are motivated to become leaders as well.

Tell us a bit about yourself.

My name is Pravitasari, and I am working on an application called TuneMap which is a GPS navigation app for visually impaired people who live in the city. We use crowdsourcing sites to connect visually impaired people with sighted pedestrians who will provide information about road conditions. Our aim is to empower the visually impaired community by creating safer roads to walk in, so they can lead a productive life and access proper facilities within the city. It’s about creating equal opportunity.

What was your background previously and how did the idea come about for TuneMap?

Firstly, I am an avid pedestrian who likes to walk a lot. As a sighted person, I feel uncomfortable walking on the existing pavements in Indonesia. At university I also studied psychology, which helped me better empathise with people who are different from me. If walking around the city was not accessible to sighted people, what would it be like for people who cannot see?

So I created Tunemap and tried to get it up and running with the support of some friends. We entered a UNDP competition, and through that, we were lucky enough to get connected with the largest visually impaired community in Indonesia who we work closely with in developing this project. We also work with UN volunteers in Indonesia who connect us with Indorelawan and also with the Ministry of Youth and Sports (MENPORA). We started with a societal mission, now we are trying to sustain this idea by also looking for funding opportunities to monetise our enterprise.

As a startup, what have been the biggest challenges and how do you overcome them?

It has been quite difficult finding fundraising such as equity, because we are focused on a very niche market and it is hard to find investors who want to invest in this market. That’s the challenge we are facing, but we are so glad for the grants we have received, which have allowed us to come up with the initial product, test it, and then validate it to the related stakeholders, to the users and to the beneficiaries – the visually impaired people. So the grants have helped a lot, but we know that we cannot rely on them in the long run.

the most important thing is to keep going. While fundraising is not an easy process, me and my team are clear about the why – why we want to do what we do. That keeps us going. We face so many failures and rejections. At least this year we prove that we can keep going and keep achieving one at a time.

What do you hope to achieve with your application?

We have two goals, that is, creating an inclusive and data-driven city. First and foremost, our focus is to empower visually impaired communities and provide sidewalks that are comfortable for them to walk on. After that, the benefits will flow to the rest of the community. The thing is, the government doesn’t know which areas to provide proper pedestrian footpaths and also who will use it. They have created pedestrian paths sporadically, without the use of data. So, we at Tunemap, are trying to solve that problem by using the data that is collected by the pedestrians to promote walkability in the city. Places like Jakarta but specifically Bandung, still have that walking culture. That’s why we started in Bandung, because a lot of people are still walking. Even if one person walks, they can make up to 20-30 report which is a lot of data collected already.

Being a woman co-founder in this startup ecosystem, have you had any particular difficulties dealing with gender dynamics?

I’m grateful that I have a team that is very supportive. Our co-founder is also a woman and our tech team is led by a man, and he is fine being led by two women. As women, we try to prove that nothing is different in leading. There may be limited interaction between us and the investors so we don’t know yet the ecosystem in the investor landscape towards women founders, but internally we have no issues with that. We are contacting with the stakeholders are fine with that, they will also be challenged coming from it, we are trying to figure out how to tackle it. Because I am also married, my challenge is how to balance my role as a leader in this enterprise and my role as a wife. So the challenges as a woman founder, requires time and effort in the workplace, so the challenges is between balancing the role, for me so far so good. The most important thing is communicating with your partner, so that we can find a way. As women leaders I think we should not lower our expectations of what we can achieve just because we’re women.

Do you have an tips on leadership?

I’m not a natural leader – so I need to read widely and observe from other people. I think for women and people in general who think they are not able to lead, don’t feel down, because everyone can lead. Just try to figure out what your weaknesses are, focus on your strengths, and where should you improve. Don’t be afraid to ask for help – either from your co-founders, teammates, or friends and family. As women leaders, we should not lower our expectations of what we can achieve just because we are women.

Do you have any female role models?

Sheryl Sandberg, of course. Through her book I realized that women leaders do have their own challenges but it should not hinder them to become a leader. Apart from that, I learned how to compromise with our partner without having to lower expectations on our own career aspirations.

What do you love about your work?

Since I was a child, my parents would tell me that the most important thing in life is how you can impact other people. So those values have been instilled in me from a really early age, they are what keep me going everyday knowing that our application is making a difference.

Tell us a bit about yourself.

I’m Metha from Sayurbox which is an e-commerce platform distributing fresh, local produce and dry goods from local farmers and producers. Amanda [Susanti] and I have been doing Sayurbox since July 2016. I currently manage the operations of Sayurbox, which entails sourcing from the farmers and establishing relationships between them, managing the warehouse and logistics, and distribution of the produce.

How did you come into this partnership together?

Amanda is actually very passionate about farming. She had a farm initially, and worked together with the local farmers in the area. At the time, I had just finished my Masters degree, came back to Jakarta and met Amanda. She told me about this project she wanted to build, which sounded really exciting. So I got on board.

For a lot of urban people, living in cities means having access to all kinds of produce at the supermarket and not really having to think about where it comes from. Do you think there’s is a trend towards a renewed focus on local and seasonal produce?

We try to communicate those values to our customers. For example, we have farmer profiles on our website so the customer knows exactly where their food has come from. The response has been really good, people are really excited whenever we post on social media. This is what really excites us, to be able to reach more farmers to join our network, so we can serve more customers. People are really embracing this concept of farm-to-table fresh produce.

Having worked closely with these farmers, what are the sorts of challenges they are facing in this massive food value chain?

Logistics is one of the major challenges they are facing right now, because not many farmers have the access to it. That’s where we come in. We provide assistance with access to markets and help them manage logistics in order to distribute crops to the customers in the areas that we cover. In many farming communities, there are long supply chains which means farmers depend on parties like village traders. They have to sell their crops to the first traders to get the initial capital to grow their produce, then when harvest time comes around, they sell their produce to the first trader at the price that they’ve set. As a result, they are not able to set up a decent market for their families. We provide them with an option so that they don’t always have to sell to their first trader, instead they can sell to us for a fair price, and we can help distribute to the consumers and the market.

Have you experienced any major challenges in setting up Sayurbox?

Again, in terms of logistics, we have had to build the operational system by ourselves. Initially it was about approaching the farmers and building a relationship and gaining their trust. They were just used to selling their crops to village traders, so it was intimidating for them at first to see strangers coming into their village. Lots of the challenges that we face from the start is mostly the operational challenges, identifying how we can help these farmers and efficiently distribute their crops. It keeps us going though, knowing that there are a lot of opportunities to tackle these issues, and get as many farmers on board as possible.

And being two women founders, have face you faced any gender biases in your career?

Luckily not really. Everyone that we have met on our journey with Sayurbox have been really helpful. They don’t focus on the fact that we are two women, but there is definitely still that stigma of ‘Can you actually do this?’ Because as a woman in Indonesia, and in society more generally, there’s that idea that you need to have a family and do all these things by a certain age. I personally don’t have those kinds of issues. But they are still very much prevalent within society. At Sayurbox we really try to encourage women, in fact 80% of our team are women. We try to build a culture for women where we are supportive of each other. For example, if one of our women employees needs to take care of their children at home, they have the option of working from home. That way they can achieve that balance between work and family life.

What do you love most about the work you do?

For me, it’s the people I have met. Getting to meet the farmers has always been my favourite thing. Whenever we go for sourcing, I get to travel, learn how they grow their produce, talk with them about their life on the farm and the challenges that they are facing. It’s incredible to see their passion for growing food. The feeling you get when you talk to them – you can see their genuinity, and the love they put into growing their fruits and vegetables. They work very hard. We also employ mothers in our warehouse, who work for us during their free time to earn extra cash for their families. They pack, pick and check the quality of the produce. It’s a very satisfying feeling getting to work closely with different people.

What’s one piece of advice you would say to young women entrepreneurs?

Just do it. Don’t be afraid or be limited by the stigmas within society. Just have the courage to explore. I personally don’t have a background in farming or agriculture, but having met Amanda and seeing how passionate she is makes me want to learn more. There are always going to be challenges – just believe in yourself, try your best and you will go a long way.

ANGIN Women’s Spotlight series seeks to showcase a diverse array of inspiring women leaders and their stories and experiences in order to shed light on the unique experiences of women in business. We hope that both men and women can gain from these shared experiences, that these stories can inspire change, and that other young girls are motivated to become leaders as well.

Tell us a bit about yourself.

I’m Claire Quillet, a French citizen who lived almost 20 years in Indonesia, mother of 2, CEO of Towards Sustainable Businesses (TSB). TSB is a consultancy agency supporting mainly private sector to design, implement, monitor and evaluate development program and/or corporate social responsibility (CSR) programs. Our main area of expertise is WASH (water, sanitation and hygiene), as well as education and environment. Our aim is to ensure that employees and surrounding communities will universally have access to WASH and therefore to a better health, as well as creating positive impact to the company’s business.

You’ve been in Indonesia for almost 20 years. What made you want to stay for so long?

You know, I arrived on a two-months contract – it always starts that way. I came as an emergency specialist, working for an emergency NGO. I came in 1999 during the Maluku crisis, so I was based in a tiny island in Maluku, providing displaced people with water and sanitation, foods and health care. In terms of natural disasters, it has been non-stop in Indonesia since 1999. From the crisis in Timor, to the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami, with earthquakes in Yogyakarta, Padang, Alor or Nabire – for a WASH emergency specialist, this was the place to be. I stayed for work, by helping people in need. That’s the first reason.

Also moving from one island to another, is almost like working in different countries. Food, people, religion are different, only the language, nicely, remains the same. It’s so diverse that you don’t feel tired to be here.

Unfortunately, up to now, needs still exist for a lot of Indonesian people. You know, more than 30 million Indonesians do not have access to a toilet which causes water borne diseases (diarrhea, for instance) that kills almost 140.000 children under the age of 5 years every year in this country. So, there is still more to be done.

Have you had many difficulties during your career and how did you overcome them?

Of course. Different challenges at different times.

In the NGO sector, the objective is to reach the most vulnerable in the communities. The challenge will then to be in the field and have enough means and money to deliver programs.

I have been working for UNICEF for 8 years. The challenge was different. WASH is unique because you are dealing with several ministries including the minister for health, education, environment, Bappenas, etc. So, collaboration and coordination are crucial to achieve goals for a vast country like Indonesia. Bureaucracy can slow down the progress. But, improving regulations or changing policies take time. You must keep your motivation up and be patient.

Moving to the private sector and creating my own company was another challenge. First, actually creating it. I was lucky to find an Indonesian angel investor who believed in my idea. TSB provides unique services for multinational and Indonesian companies in the domain of sustainable CSR programs. But, CSR as a business model is not yet understood by most of the private sector. Our work is then challenging but also very exciting.

As a female founder, have you had any challenges in Indonesia?

Not at all. I think Indonesian people are very respectful. Especially being a female and an expatriate, they will esteem you a lot. They are eager to learn. Whatever they learn from you, then they will do ala Indonesia. Sometimes it might not be what you wanted, but that’s their way of doing it. You don’t want to be an expat bombarding them with how you do it in your country – because it’s their country. For me, being a woman is really a blessing.

How so?

I’ve always worked in a predominantly male environment. Indeed, WASH is technical, and few women choose this sector. With most of the men I met in my work, there is no ego game when they deal with a woman. Maybe because we also have a way to pass on the message. We are more patient. At the end of the day, the outcome is the same, but we do it in a different way.

The positive part of living in Indonesia for 20 years, is that they see you as somebody who has the international experience but also someone who is here for the long run. You know the culture, you know the language, and the how the people work. I speak Indonesian to my clients rather than English, and they respect that. Indonesians are very patriotic. Even if you don’t speak very well, as long as you try, they understand that you’re making the effort. Here, if you start to make a good relationship with someone, it is forever. The people I know in the government and in business, I have known for the last 10 years. Even when they move companies, you still have their contact details, and they will still help you.

In your work, have you ever seen a gender gap, in the population in general, problems to do with gender or equitable distribution?

Working for NGOs over the past years, we listen to the voice of the women in a different way, because their needs are not the same as their male counterparts. So, yes you have gender inequality. Unlike in the Western world, the issues of gender equality here are not just about equal pay and domestic violence, but women are still finding their place within society. You will see women who stay at home, some work for small salaries, and have many kids but won’t always have access to family planning. Not only that, but the geographical inequalities are also present. You can see the difference between Jakarta and the more Eastern islands like Papua. Women’s empowerment initiatives exist, but we are still far away from reaching gender equality.

Can you talk about one woman who has impacted your life?

I do not have a role model. But there are some Indonesian women I really admire, for example Ibu Tiur. She is the head of Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) and used to be the head Indonesia Business Council for Sustainable Development (IBCSD). She’s amazing – she has the knowledge, motivation and the drive, it’s inside her. Even though she’s a busy person, she will take the time to talk with you, to see how she can help with your business, or even just talking in general. She has an incredible network and aura that everybody sees. It’s not about money or power for her. She is amazing for her country.

You are also a mother, right?

Yes, I have 2 kids, one boy and one girl.

You would hope to see them grow up in a world where things are better and both of them can grow up to be on equal footing. How do you instill those values in both your kids? What do you hope to see for them in the future?

For me, that lies in education. They have to understand where they come from. They have their father here, but also have roots in France. When they were young, I bought them a globe to open their minds up to the world. It’s about discussing the problems that they face, and having that daily discussion with them where nothing is taboo. I also talk a lot about my work, so they know what I am doing, and that I have worked in different parts of the world. Just showing them by example is opening their mind up a lot. Whatever they want to do in terms of work, it’s up to them. Just do it with the sense of human to human.

It’s scary to have kids at this time. If I was a young woman now I would ask myself if I want to have kids because I can see where the world is going, in terms of the environment, the growth of internet and consumption. Adjusting to this as a mother is challenging, but I always keep positive.

That’s why I am doing what I am doing. Engaging private sector to see business differently, to leave a better world for the future generation. CSR is not philanthropy. CSR program should impact the company’s business – whether it’s for their reputation or brand development and serve the community needs. A sustainable program, that will develop the company business and the community, need a thorough design. It is crucial to conduct robust preliminary study within the community to understand the context, their needs, as well as their aspirations. It’s not about what you want to give them. It is a human to human experience.

Tell us a bit about yourself.

I’m Giulia Sartori, I’m the founder of Miachia. We specialise in energy bars and bites, made from real fruit and premium ingredients.

You started in climate change consultancy, what was the point at which you decided to switch careers?

My background is in economics. I did a masters of environmental management and I started my career in climate change about 12 years ago. To be honest, I didn’t really know if I wanted to quit my job for good, and I still don’t. I just needed a break from that environment, despite the fact that I really did like my job. Around a year and a half ago, I wanted to change jobs but I couldn’t find anything that was exciting enough. Then I had a terrible experience with my boss at the time, which made me really want to try my own thing, something different. At that time, I was really excited about healthy eating and food. So I thought I might give it a try.

So you were already in Indonesia? Why did you choose to base your company here?

Yes, I came to Indonesia about 6 years ago for my work and my husband followed me. It was a funny evolution of things actually – he wasn’t feeling too well at first, and was later diagnosed with gluten intolerance. I then decided we had to change our lifestyle, so I enrolled myself in a nutrition course that I was doing at night and on weekends. From there, I started experimenting with recipes and things that I could do. I wanted to have a healthy lifestyle for us and the kids, but I couldn’t find much in the Indonesian market. It just came to me that maybe I could start my own business creating healthy snacks.

What is the concept of Miachia?

The concept is dead simple, but funnily enough it’s a concept that a lot of people don’t understand. So our products are 100% natural with no preservatives, refined sugars and syrups, just using 2-5 ingredients. Just nuts, fruits, and seeds. That’s it. So it’s really simple, but many people don’t see the added value of eating so simply and so naturally. The thing that I have most difficulty with, is that we say that our products don’t have added sugar in them, which they don’t, but are naturally very sweet because we sweeten them with fruits like dates, figs and raisins. Many Indonesians won’t believe us when we say we don’t use any sugar – they say, “They’re really sweet, how is that possible?” We just blend fruits!

We also try to source everything locally and directly from farmers as much as possible.  Unfortunately it’s not possible for all our ingredients, so what we do source from outside, we try to source from organic suppliers.

So your market a mix of Indonesians and expatriates?

Yes. Initially, it was purely expats. Simply because those were the people that could easily understand our product. The feedback that I got was surprisingly really good. At the moment, I’m trying to expand to the Indonesian market as well, which is generally upper-middle class. Number one, because those are the people who are concerned about diet and healthier eating and are also able to afford our product.

Having led number of teams throughout your career, what leadership lessons have you learnt?

When I started Miachia, I made a conscious decision to only employ women. Particularly those who did not have an education, both older or younger and haven’t had many previous employment opportunities. With that in mind, I have had problems that i’ve never had before in terms of leadership. One of them is implementing procedures and standards, and explaining why things are done in a certain way, has proven difficult to put in place and enforce. The main thing i’ve learnt is to be flexible and patient. I did not have a lot of patience before and I could often be demanding. I was very fast paced then, whereas now I have to take a step back and go a lot slower.

Being a mother of two kids, how do you juggle all of it? What are the secrets?

Look, I have to admit, I never get it right. There are times where I really need to focus on work, and I just focus on that a lot more than my family. Then there are times where I have to take a step back and take more time for the kids and the family. Maybe I’ll go to work and then come home a little bit earlier. Weekends are absolutely non-working days. So I try to have a balance but very rarely I get it right. I just see what is priority.

Overall, the family has always been my priority. Of course work is important, but I always try and make time for them. When I quit my job, I started this company with the intention that I would examine how the business if going after a year, and decide whether to go back to work and find myself new employment. So during that year, I worked so hard to get this company up and running. But I also wanted to enjoy my kids while I still had the flexibility, which I wouldn’t have in a normal 9 to 5 job. So I tried to spend a lot of time with them, because they’re small and need time and attention. People say its quality versus quantity, and at this age it’s actually the other way. It’s about how much time you spend around them, so I try to be around as much as possible.

Do you have any advice for any young women who want to go into entrepreneurship?

One of the advantages I had in starting my own company was that I was not afraid of failure. That helped me a lot, it helped me to start and not overthink it. Therefore I focused on how I was going to do things and try to be successful, rather than sinking into fear and thinking about the what ifs. I actually give mentorships to other women here that are looking to start their own business. The most common question asked is ‘What if i fail?’ My answer to that is

‘So what?’ If you fail, at least you will learn something from the experience and wouldn’t have lost much except time, and even that is compensated by the experience that you’ve learnt. My advice to young people is don’t be too worried or scared to fail, because you probably will in some areas at least. Just take that lesson and you apply it back to something else next time.

When starting a business pitch your idea and business model to as many people as possible, especially entrepreneurs, their feedback will help you structure or improve the concept. Within this year and a half of starting Miachia, there have been many things that have not worked at all. For me, it’s just been expenses in terms of money that I’ve thrown out the window. But I wouldn’t have known if I didn’t try.  Don’t be worried about what your friends or family will say, just do it. The younger you are the less you have to lose as well. So, who cares.

Tell us a bit about yourself.

My name is Dayu Dara Permata. I am the Senior Vice President of GO-JEK, and co-founder of GO-LIFE which is the lifestyle division of GO-JEK.

What was the inspiration behind the GO-LIFE division?

Back in 2015, GO-JEK had just launched its mobile application which had 3 services – transportation for 2-wheels, logistics for 2-wheels and food delivery. Nadiem [Makarim] reached out to me and asked if i wanted to join his team with this application called GO-JEK. At the time, it was a really small startup – with only about 12 people in the management team in a very small office.

I asked him, “Why do you want me to join?” to which he shared with me his vision for GO-JEK – as a tool to empower the informal sector through technology and user-centered design, which is done by providing a platform for users and service providers. Nadiem started with transportation services and logistics which he believes to be the backbone of the business. But on top of this backbone, he believed that you could build layers and layers of services, which is how GO-LIFE came about.

We are harboring the opportunities in the market – the skills and talent out there, the service providers who struggle to find customers, who make barely enough money to make a living yet at the same time, are very productive and skillful. While on the supply side, there are inflexible working hours, with some people working away from their families for 8-10 hours, even when there are no customers. And on the demand side, you see all these customers struggling to find service providers, who are also limited by operating hours. At certain hours, everyone has to queue, and then other times it is idle. It’s simply inflexible.

These inefficiencies in the market means there is an opportunity to aggregate. So that’s how the idea came about. When Nadiem reached out to me he had no idea what kinds of services were going to be launched, so I had to figure that out. I pulled my best friend in to be co-founder, and pushed for these 3 new services (on-demand beauty, massage and cleaning services) because I am an avid user of these services. Nadiem always told me that when you invent something, make sure it also solves your problems and that you’re passionate about it. So then if things don’t go well, at least you’ve solved your own problems.

Where do you see GO-JEK going in the next few years?

GO-JEK now has become a one-stop app for urban needs. Three years ago when I first joined the company, we were just starting with transportation and logistics services. Now that backbone is very strong, and any services can really be built on top of it. We are the largest transportation network in Indonesia with around 1 million drivers, whether it be 2-wheel or 4-wheel. We are the largest logistics network in Indonesia, the largest cashless payment network and the most diverse in terms of the services we provide – transportation, logistics, food, retail, shopping, lifestyle, to professional services and payment – you name it.

Where is GO-JEK going next? When you want to grow a business there are only 3 things you can do: Firstly, you can diversify your services. We’ve just started to do that, and we are not even halfway done yet! In the next coming years, we will continue to diversify our services.

Secondly, extensifying or expanding to other regions.  Indonesia has more than 300 cities, more than 100,000 populations. Now we are in 75 cities. There are still 200+ cities to expand to just in Indonesia. The opportunities are even more immense outside of Indonesia.

Last but not least – intensifying. For every service that we’ve already launched, one of the other features is to make things more efficient and more effective,  and to provide more uses and solve more pinpoints.

Being a woman who is also quite young, have you ever felt undermined because of that?

Ever since I started my career, I have always had that feeling of being inexperienced and very young, particularly being a woman in a male dominated industry.  So when I first jumped into the workforce, I started working as a corporate strategy analyst in a company where I was the youngest, the most clueless, etc. So you always have to establish yourself. How you do that is by working to the best of your ability, continue to learn and never stop. Step up in your role in every opportunity. If you’re given a small role, go beyond that scope and prove that you can do it and next thing you know – they give you more than your initial scope, and before you know it you are leading the team and responsible for a major deliverable and exposed to top management and shareholders. So that’s what happened in my first year working as a corporate strategy analyst.

Then, I was a consultant at McKinsey. I was also the youngest there in every team setup. I had to work with clients with more than 20 years experience in that particular field and you have to advise them. Of course you will also be undermined. The things we hear from time to time from clients, like “Oh my socks are older than you!” or “What are you doing here? You’re the same age as my daughter!” These were very common. You will always get undermined if you are young and inexperienced, if there’s someone more senior than you and you’re also working on something you’ve never done before. The key is to establish yourself, do the best to your capability and scope, go beyond that scope and prove that you can.

What are the most challenging aspects of your work? How do you stay motivated?

The biggest challenge for me as a leader is to manage people and to lead. In my life, I’ve read probably more than 100 books on leadership, and have been exposed to a lot of coaches who are good leaders. So I thought I knew a lot about leadership. I never led until I joined GO-JEK, because at McKinsey I was an analyst and mostly interacted with researchers who I didn’t have to manage. When I hired my first 60 members at GO-JEK, I realized I didn’t know how to lead despite all those books I had read. That is the most challenging part of being a leader – to lead, and how you manage these human beings with feelings and emotions – today they could be happy, tomorrow they could cry. When you give them guidance, some of them get it and become easily motivated, while others continue to be clueless.

My teams grew quickly from 60 to 150. So, feel like my biggest challenge everyday is how to manage people, how to develop them so that they can be the next leaders, and hopefully be my successors. I think leading is like giving birth, you can read hundreds of books on how to give birth, you don’t know how it feels and what it takes until you are the one actually doing it. So I think it’s just about practice and try to be a better version of the leader everyday. Because everyone is a work in progress. I don’t think anyone is perfect, it’s always contextual and situational. You can be a good leader for a certain company or organization, then you take on a different role and have to start all over again. So that’s the challenge.

How do you motivate yourself on tough days?

First of all, when you do something, make sure it’s something you’re passionate about. You’re not only in it for the money, but that you’re in for a good cause. Because there needs to be a purpose to do well, but also to do good. If you have that, then everyday will feel lighter. There are also challenges everyday that sometimes takes problem solving. How I get through my day is by reminding myself what I am here for. That means taking a step back to re-prioritise and understand what matters the most. Is it worth fighting for? You need to choose your battles. You can’t be stressed out about too many things. Understand what you can control and forget what you cannot control, because if you think about it all the time, it will just make you very unhappy. So, understand what’s within your scope, what you can control, and then solve it.

Do you have a female role model who has impacted your life?

I look up to Cheryl Sandberg (COO of Facebook). I think she is very inspiring in the way that she is a great leader – a great leader for herself, for her team, for change and for causes that she believes in. At the time, she was in her thirties, in a senior role working as the United States Secretary of the Treasury. Then, Mark [Zuckerburg] came to her asking her to join his online social networking company. She decided to take a chance and trust in Mark, someone who was 15 years younger than her. She has that audacity, fearlessness but also humility. She inspires a lot of people.

If you could tell young girls in the world any message, what would it be?

I have this mental model I call B.R.A.V.E. ‘B’ stands for believe in yourself, if you can or believe you cannot you will be right either way. So whenever I do something, I believe I can. If you have the mindset that you can’t do it, you’re already halfway to failure.

‘R’ is role model success – which is important if you want to be successful as a female leader. Everyone wants to be successful. but there are many definitions of success. My success means something very different to someone else’s success. Make sure you know what success means to you – that could mean leading a team of a thousand people or to be like someone, whether that person be Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates or Jokowi. Once you have a goal in mind, the journey can be zig-zag or sideways but at least you know you’re going there.

‘A’ stands for attain rational distance. Sometimes when women think they want to drop out of the workforce, it can be short-sighted, focused on the short-term, or purely fueled by emotions. If you want to be a successful leader, you always need to attain rational distance whenever you make a decision. Whatever decision you make will affect you and your future. If you make decisions, ask yourself the question – Will my family and friends be happy about it? In ten days or ten months, will I be happy about it? If the answer is no, then probably don’t make that decision or at least postpone it until you are more rational.

‘V’ is view failures as a learning. As an entrepreneur and a leader, most times than not you will fail at the first time you try. The success rate of startups is 10% which means if you try 10 times, you will succeed at least once. If you bump into failures, don’t feel like this is the end of everything. Just think of it as part of your learning curve. As I go on and make mistakes, I learn to do better. Then, at some point my performance will outdo my failures and I will be a high-performing leader and individual. So, view failures as the cost of learning.

‘E’ is expand possibilities. A lot of female leaders think they have to choose between career or family, love life or professional life, and being successful at work or at home. That is exactly what will happen if you think that way. You will only succeed in one of these areas because that is your mindset. Expanding possibilities is about believing that you will achieve everything, not at the same time, but at the right time. There might be a time where I will want to settle down and have kids. That means that in the next 9 months, I will have this hormonal turmoil and might not be my best self all the time, but it’s ok because it’s an investment. Once you have given birth, maybe your priorities will shift to make sure that your kids are well-looked after and you become a responsible mother. But after that, you can basically run again and continue your marathon. Believe that you can be successful in everything that you do, be ready to pass in and out of your career and family until you find the right balance. Just be brave.